The Dropa (or Dzopa) stones

A photograph alleged to show one of the ‘Dropa stones’
A photograph alleged to show one of the ‘Dropa stones’

A number of publications, particularly on the Ancient Astronaut end of the Bad Archaeology scale, have repeated a story about some stones said to have been found in caves at Bayan Kara Ula in western China. The story became known in the west principally through Erich von Däniken’s second and third books, Return to the Stars and Gold of the Gods, although it appeared first in Robert Charroux’s work and has since become a staple of ufological literature.

The Bayan Kara Ula (Bayan Kara Shan or Bayan Har Shan) region (around 97°E 34°N), in Qinghai (Tsinghai) and Sichuan Provinces, contains the sources of the Tontian He (Yangtse Kiang) and Za Qu (Mekong) Rivers and until relatively recently, it was very isolated. In January 1938, according to the story, Chu Pu Tei (since 2009, a Chinese version of the name – 齐福泰, Qi Futai or Qifu Tai – has been in circulation), a Chinese archaeologist, made a remarkable discovery in caves in the region. The caves contained a series of graves, while their walls were decorated with drawings of people with elongated heads together with images of the sun, moon and stars. The graves were found to contain the remains of beings little more than a metre tall, with abnormally large skulls. The archaeologists also found a stone disk a little over 300 mm in diameter, with a hole in the centre. A groove on the surface of the disk spiralled outwards from the centre hole to the rim and back, forming a double spiral. Another 716 disks were found in the caves by subsequent investigations.

The disks were sent to a variety of scholars for investigation. One of them, Professor Tsum Um Nui of the Beijing Academy for Ancient Studies, found that the spiral grooves were actually a line of characters written in an unknown language. In 1962, he announced that he had managed to translate the disks. According to his translation, an alien spacecraft crashed in the Bayan Har Shan region twelve thousand years ago. The occupants, aliens called Dropa or Dzopa, could not repair their craft and tried to adapt to conditions on Earth. Meanwhile, the local Ham (or Kam or Kham, depending on the source) tribesmen hunted down and killed most of them. As the Ham were notably short people themselves, it is not clear whether the skeletons found in the caves were those of the Dropa/Dzopa or of Ham tribesmen. Supposedly, the aliens had intermarried with the locals, making identification of the origins of the skeletons more difficult.

The Professor’s publication of his results was greeted with disbelief and he was branded a liar. Resigning from Beijing Academy, he emigrated to Japan, where he died shortly afterwards. Nevertheless, Russian scientists became interested in the disks; several were sent to Moscow, where a chemical analysis found that the disks contained large amounts of cobalt.

One of ‘Wegener/Wegerer’s’ polaroids of two of the Dropa stones
One of ‘Wegener/Wegerer’s’ polaroids of two of the Dropa stones

In 1974, Ernst Wegener (or Wegerer according to some versions), an Austrian engineer, located two of the disks in the Banpo Museum (Banpo Bowuguan) in Xi’an, Shaanxi Province. The museum director could tell him nothing about the disks, which had begun to deteriorate, but she allowed him to photograph them. By 1994, the disks had disappeared and, it is alleged, the previous curator had also disappeared. Banpo is best known for its Neolithic (Yangshao Culture) village, located about nine kilometres from the centre of Xi’an on the bank of the River Chanhe; the museum is built on the site of the village and is dedicated to objects excavated from it.

The real story

Although the story is rich in circumstantial detail, unlike so many in the Bad Archaeological literature, the detail turns out to be fiction. The earliest source for it is an article in Литературная газета (Literaturnaya Gazeta) of 9 February 1960, p 2, discussing the speculations of Matest M Agrest (1915-2005) that aliens might have visited earth in the remote past and left traces of their arrival. It was subsequently reprinted in its entirety as “Hypotheses, assumptions and guesses: does the trail lead into space?” by Valentin Isaakovich Rich and Mikhail Borisovy Chernenko in the magazine Новое Русское Слово (Current Digest of the Russian Press, a Russian language newspaper published in the USA since 1910, Volume 12 No 9 (30 March 1960), p 24-6). Intriguingly, this contained the story before the alleged date of Tsum Um Nui’s translation of the disks as related in later accounts. Some have suggested that Valentin Rich and Mikhail Chernenko never existed and were pseudonyms. However, they published a book in 1964, Сквозь магический кристалл: повесть о мысли (‘Through the Magic Crystal: a story of ideas’), on artificial diamonds, while Valentin Rich published Охота за элементами (‘The hunt for the elements’) in 1982 and В поисках элементов (‘In search of the elements’) in 1985 and so they appear to have been genuine popular science writers.

Two years later, the story turned up in the July 1962 edition Das Vegetarische Universum, a German vegetarian magazine, which published a story attributed to a Reinhardt Wegemann called Ufos in der Vorzeit? Die Hieroglyphen von Baian-Kara-Ula (‘Ufos in ancient times? The hieroglyphs of Bayan Kara Ula’). Intriguingly, the story is attributed to a news agency DINA, Tokyo; this is neither General Pinochet’s secret police nor the Mexican lorry manufacturer, so it is unclear what the acronym represents (it looks as if it could be the Deutsche Internationale Nachrichtenagentur, although if the agency ever existed, it has left no trace). The same story, from the same (apparently non-existent) news agency, again credited to Reinhardt Wegemann, was published in UFO-Nachrichten, a German UFO magazine, in July 1964. However, no trace of Reinhardt Wegemann can be found outside the story as published in Das Vegetarische Universum. The Belgian UFO organization BUFOI published a French translation in the March-April 1965 edition of its newsletter (number 4), to be followed by a Russian translation in 1967, bringing the story full circle.

The Russian translation was condensed by Vyacheslav Zaitsev in the English language magazine Sputnik: the Russian Digest dating from 1967, where it was called ‘Visitors from outer space: science versus fiction’. Sputnik is a sensationalistic magazine similar to Britain’s Daily Sport and the USA’s National Inquirer (please note that you may not be able to see its pages outside the USA).

What can we make of all this? Firstly, that the story has a very, very dubious pedigree. A speculative article by a pair of science writers seems to have been expanded by an unknown writer into the story published in the name of Reinhardt Wegemann in 1962. Whoever was behind this seems to have been disappointed by the poor take up of the story (a page in a vegetarian newspaper can hardly have had the impact the author of the hoax would have wanted), so he pushed it out again in 1964. Although rewritten, there is a clue in the text that it was originally prepared two years previously: it describes the expedition in which Chi Pu Tei discovered the discs as having occurred forty-five years previously, which would have placed in 1939, rather than 1937 as originally claimed. It seems that 1964 was a better year for tall tales involving crashed UFOs, as the story was taken up in a variety of publications. It was through one of these that Vyacheslav Zaitsev’s popularisation made it known to a wider world, including the up-and-coming Erich von Däniken. From there, the story blossomed, giving rise to at least two works of fiction, one of which was to foist the non-existent Lolladoff Plate on the gullible through the fictional Sungods in Exile.

The real Dropa

Tibetan nomadic herders, known as dropka
Tibetan nomadic herders, known as dropka

The Dropa turn out not to be the descendants of aliens, even mixed-race descendants, but an indigenous people of the eastern Tibetan plateau. Their name – which is better rendered Drop-Ka under the Gould-Parkinson system of transliteration for Tibetan – means ‘solitude’ or ‘inhabitant of high pasture lands’, a thoroughly down-to-earth description of seminomadic tribespeople of the plateau.

Worse, none of the names given in the accounts belongs to anyone who can be shown to have been involved archaeology or linguistics. Tsum Um Nui does not even appear to be a genuine Chinese name! There has never been a Beijing Academy for Ancient Studies and there are no records of an archaeologist named Chu Pu Tei: all stories with this name or its recent alternative spelling of Qi Futai relate to the Dropa Stones. The photos attributed to the otherwise unknown Wegener appear to be genuine, but they merely show stone disks with a hole in the centre and double spirals that were part of ancient snake cults and are known as Bi discs. One of the photographs of an alleged disk – not Wegener’s – shows it propped on a chair, clearly with a diameter much larger than the 300 mm claimed by the story. There is no mystery about a curator no longer being in post after twenty years: even museum professionals are permitted to change jobs, retire and die. In short, the details permit us to dismiss the story as science fiction.

109 Replies to “The Dropa (or Dzopa) stones”

  1. Just had a dream about stones much smaller than the ones in the picture woke up and couldnt get the word droopa out of my head … my google search lead me here … I had a dream I was collecting them. However I do watch alot of dragonball z … coincedence?

  2. Just want to ask a simple thing why there are so many dropa discs? why are they round in shape made out of rock or clay with a particular hole in it? nothing can be out of purpose right. So, the ancient chinese tribe people are constructing some artifact whose known use is not known to us, how is that possible ?
    Other OOPart like AntiKythera Mechanism is still a unknown and undeniable mystery object

    1. There aren’t any “Dropa Disks”. There is a photo that someone claims to be of “Dropa Disks”. There are many Bi Disks that were buried with the dead and you can easily find information on these with a quick internet search. The purpose of the Antikythera Mechanism is not a mystery. It was/is a highly complex “computer” that calculated astronomic occurrences. You can learn all about it here:

  3. Who is the person who wrote this piece?! “Bad Archaeology”? This is a term that is used by writers like yourself who have no previous knowledge of either the anient astronaut theory or archeology in general. This “bad Archaeology” is what my collegues and fellow scholars have been researching for the past 20 years. Do you have any idea how much archaeological artifacts have been found in the past 30 – 40 years that give direct evidence to this super-plausable history? The answer is No, you dont have any idea. If you did you would not be able to bring yourself to write “Bad Archaeology” in regards to this topic, No matter how much your paid to write this stuff!.
    I’ll say the same as i stress to writers as close minded as yourself. Before you write about a topic and pass judgement, make sure you have the research and evidence to back that kind of judgement up.
    If you have no knowledge of something dont make judgement on it.

    1. I’m the person who wrote this piece. I’m a professional archaeologist with more than 26 experience in the field. Don’t insult my intelligence with your poorly written ramblings. Unlike you, I do my research before writing and passing judgement; I produce evidence to back it up. All you can do is make unsupported statements that are nonsensical.

      1. Mr Fitzpatrick-Matthews is correct: while he laid out examples, counter-examples, and an analysis, all we get from Mr. Grant is a bit of Argumentum Ad Hominem. Thank you Mr. Grant. You are a good and funny person, but you will have to improve your trolling skills.

      2. just because you went to some digs does not make you an expert. in my previous life I used to make drop stones and there is only one use for the rings them are ancient lp,s did you find grammamaphone that goes with them and some ice cream cones. of course not they are really clever decor lol

    2. Dropa stones are a total hoax. I’m sorry you’ve wasted part of your life on a hoax but it doesn’t make it any more real than it is. Which it isn’t. I believe in extra terrestrials but this story has already been debunked by multiple sources. Maybe you are the ones who haven’t done enough research

    3. I agree that, scientifically speaking, there is a boat load of evidence (would you say I have a plethora of artifacts), that support a history that includes a pre-sumar/Egypt/incayantec society extremely advanced, and with knowledge and technology far surpassing these people’s and maybe our own. These possible histories which include theoretical alien assistance and/or specie-fication**, are often equally or better backed by evidence, and usually more plausible than the traditionally accepted histories.

      However, I think your passionate defense of these alernative histories of humans on Earth, is gravely misplaced in this case. I was incredibly inspired when I first read about the Dropa’s and their time on Earth. I told friends and family about it and had begun using it during my halfhearted attempt to convert them into believers or at least doubters of the traditional explanations.

      I really wanted to know more. Who were these people? Where are these caves? Where are the discs? Is there an accurate translation available online? How hard is it to visit? Cost?

      Then I got my answers-

      No discs to be found, not caves to be visited, no other information to be had.

      Except that most of the names, the people, the groups are probably made up, and much like support for our atlantian/alien ancestry, the evidence suggests the whole thing is a made up story.

      This bogus “evidence” which is being propped up by GAIA and a list of other allegedly credible proponents of revised ancestry, wasted a lot of my time and energy and undermined some of the progress I had made opening up my friends and family’s eyes. It’s stuff like this that gets these ideas submissed as a whole, and it is the equivalent of the behavior of our governments when they cover things up and promote lies and false conclusions and false science.

      So keep fighting the good fight! But let this one go please for all our sak s


      ** (I just created this word, and although I have no established IP legal rights over it and history books might someday state that it was instead Joe PLutosmoe, it is mine and was born from my brain and thoughts)

  4. You guys aint real archaeologists!! no way could you have this view of archaeology and be keen archaeologists. To hell with yor Pompeii and roman history. The true history is of the Sumerian Civilization, this archaeology at its finest, maybe you guys havent been very far in life but arhaeology has so much more to offer than subjective cultures of roman history and politics. The real archaeollogy has in the last 20 years been in the middle east and south america. There have been findings in South america and Iran that you have no idea about, that would scare you to your witts. Even an old man like myself with 20+ years experience in the middle east were shocked with the findings. As far as i am told these findings will be provided to public opinion towards end of the year. After that happens theres really no future for this site…. sorry :)

    1. On the contrary, we are both real archaeologists and it appears that you have been taken in by fraudsters.

      1. Still well said in 2015. Also, still waiting for the grey alien to come and collect their pottery record collection!

      2. im polish and i know whats up maybee its an o ring from ancient stone engine that ran on rocks o im sorry thats your head thats fool of them rocks if you dont know dont make no outrageous claims im sorry theorists are right about one thing they all got an opinion and so do monkeys apes Darvin so on

    2. I’ll put “towards the end of the year” on my calendar. And of course, Grant, when December 31, 2012 comes and no evidence has been presented you’ll come back here and apologize for lying, right?

    3. Precisely which year are you referring to? Plainly wasn’t 2012 – can you narrow it down any further?

    4. Well it’s now, mr Grant, the 25th of August 2013 already. I am not at all sorry to ask what became of your prediction? Where are the findings that would scare us to our wits. Love to be surprised, really!
      Salut! Edmond V.O. Katusz

    5. Hi Grant,

      It’s been almost two years, where’s this new evidence you were telling us about? Your imagination doesn’t count.

    6. I know all them Archie don’t know study squat you right about ancient summer I just would love to have scholars lie about history for their tongues to fall out their mouth because education is mostly theorized opinion the only way to understand it’s entirety is to reflect on your past life long ago I made them los lol for my magic music box right

  5. Criticizing each others is not the correct way of accepting knowledge though it has happened in our past and present and will happen in future. I would like to give preference to knowledge. Dropa stones, the sacura bird, the mayan golden flyer, antikythera mechanism etc are many things which are stunning pieces of evidence that people in the past had tremendous knowledge. Which was lost in the course or history. People just admitted many fact in the name of religion and faith without questioning. Are there any known facts which are hidden from us by our leaders? My point is why are we not seeing things with an open mind?

  6. Is it frustrating knowing that facts mean very little when the public will believe anyone who can publish a book? (Of course, anyone can publish a book when the public will believe anyone…hm…chicken or egg?)

    Does it ever make you wonder, knowing that anyone can say anything…how much of your own knowledge may be incorrect, or based on shoddy research? I mean, you can’t see with your own eyes every artifact that you proclaim to know about, or even if you could, you’d still be relying on another archeologist’s interpretation of the findings…do you *really* do independent research on *every* single thing you blog about here? This isn’t even a question of your ability and experience. I’m just wondering if there have ever been complete charlatans exposed to be part of the “academic” archaeological community.

    Sorry, just playing Devil’s advocate here (actually, your responses to the rude, barely-literate Grant are hilarious). I’ve been a hardcore rationalist most of my life, but some philosophy courses confused me, so now I’m the very model of a post-college spiritual-truth seeker…all of this sort of thing seems to just flow along with it. One of my friends just told me about Dropa stones as well as the Grooved Spheres and supposed Ancient Mayan Aircraft…I suppose I’m in the right place. :)

    1. Charlotte

      I can’t, as you say, examine every artefact or every site I mention here. I tend to deal with those for which I have some wider background knowledge, for which I have access to publications dealing with the material in question and in which I am interested. The Dropa Stones interest me because I am also interested in UFOs.

      And yes, there have been complete charlatans within the academic archaeological community. There have also been respectable archaeologists who have massaged their data to make it fit with their own preconceived ideas. Then there are archaeologists who write reports that have had elements removed because they are inconvenient or uncongenial to the person commissioning the report (and I know, because it happened to me when I excavated an obvious fairy ring in a garden that had been claimed to be the cropmark of an Iron Age round house: I was not allowed to call it a fairy ring and had to conclude that it was an unknown but probably archaeological feature. I now wish I’d stood up to my manager!).

      1. I’ve just stumbled onto this conversation due to researching these “dropa stones”….I can’t form an opinion one way or the other at this point but what brought me here was a youtube video :

        I found it very interesting and wonder if you can comment on what is presented there? I’m just an everyday person with a lot of curiosity….
        Great back and forth conversation on this particular string.

  7. Not to rekindle any flames here, but I really would like to see a link to these findings you speak of Grant. Maybe a link of your webpage or to some of your work to lend credibility to your complaints about the author here. With all due respect, your comments do seem to be more reminiscent of a casual reader who found something they disagree with than those of a professional. A true expert in any field would not have unleashed the barbed comments you have.

    So again, I ask that you provide a bit of documentation for your claims; the author of this article clearly knows a bit on this subject and doesn’t deserve unwarranted negativity.

  8. Kudos and Thumbs up to Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews.
    I’ve heard about this ‘case’ on and off for years, and doing a revisit to it brought me here.
    Excellent information.
    Without source material, verification, or any hard physical anything to poke at there’s nothing.
    Too often now, too many are letting Youtube, and every other hack speculation site tell them what to think and believe.
    While some of these hack sites may show some interesting ‘evidence’ toward whatever speculation, speculation is just that.

  9. archaeologists remind me of most current doctors ( I AM one)…they are so sure and smug about the “current truth”, only to have future generations of their profession laughing at their theories….too many researchers and physicians don’t even know they’re IN the box, let alone thing outside of it.

    1. You seem very cynical about “current truth”. Surely, it’s an accepted part of science that “current truth” is contingent, not fixed in stone and will be self-correcting. The parts that are wrong will be discarded and replaced by better ideas. That’s the way science works.

      I could look back and mock the fact that my predecessor at work in the 1930s thought that Iron Age grain storage pits were actually dwellings, but it would be an inappropriate response. A better way is to understand exactly why he thought they were dwellings and why I think they are grain storage pits. This is why archaeology – like other sciences – is now more aware of the theoretical underpinnings of interpretations.

      I hope you can see why “current truth” is only temporary. It’s the best we’ve got. As soon as something better comes along, it will replace the incorrect elements. It, too, will be only temporary. That’s called progress and it’s quite inappropriate to laugh at the ideas of earlier generations. What I do find risible, though, is when people today resurrect old, discredited ideas and present them as new, ground-breaking interpretations.

      1. Your patient responses to the apparently illiterate as well as the self-proclaimed experts are definitely very professional. I am always impressed with your articles and blog. And your answer here to the good Doctor is cogent. If he is a medical Doctor, I hope to never walk into his examining room if that is his attitude toward current knowledge.
        Again thanks for this great site.

  10. I’d never heard of the “Dropa Stones” until this morning, and what I find more interesting is how they, along with so many other ancient astronaut/conspiracy theories, seem to take a life on their own. Most likely the “Dropa Stones” are Bi discs that for some reason were linked to a story about aliens and it went from there.

    Where is the corroboration? The caves these stones came from or the graves and bones of these 3-4 feet tall people? (pretty obviously “aliens”) How could these unknown hieroglyphs be translated? Where is this Austrian engineer and what does he have to say?

    Instead some people accept an otherwise fantastical story and add elements onto it, subjective and interpretive, and dismiss what doesn’t fit. Mention Roswell or the Bermuda Triangle or the Loch Ness Monster and up will come all kinds of theories about alternate dimensions and time travel and mutations from people who don’t know a thing about those topics yet fervently believe what they’re saying.

    This willingness to take these ideas and figuratively run with them explains a lot about conspiracy theories and bad science. Why a certain segment of the population seems ingrained to go with these stories I think is more interesting than the actual myths themselves.

    1. No, if you read the article, you’ll see that there are some genuine discs associated with the Chinese Neolithic. They are known as Bi discs (see here for a summary) and there is absolutely nothing mysterious about them. They have been caught up in the fiction about the Dropa and ripped from their real archaeological context to spin the story along.

      If you look on auction sites, you’ll see plenty of Bi discs offered for sale. The discs are real: the story that they recount tales of alien exploration is fiction.

  11. First off, I would like to thank Keith for writing this piece. Archaeology is a fascinating subject and has plenty of real mystery without people having to invent more. In all fairness, it has not been helped by some of the more… …flamboyant… characters in archaeology in the early to middle history of the subject, or by some of the Victorian-era “methods”. Confusion over identity and loss of data are fertile soils for wild theories to grow.

    However, modern archaeologists and modern methods (assuming said archaeologists have a budget large enough to use them) are correcting a lot of earlier mistakes, misunderstandings and… well, they’re not really “urban legends” – “longbarrow legends” perhaps? This site is an excellent source of information for fixing this last category and hopefully it will continue to grow.

    (This is not to say I think modern archaeologists are perfect – the guys excavating Stonehenge a few years back earned themselves a mild scold from me on their discussion board for improper handling of samples they were going to carbon-date, for example – but mishandling a couple of samples is a B- at worst. Fictional accounts of a discovery that never was is an F.)

  12. I think people who read comic books in the 1960s have a sort of “folk memory” about Dropa stones because they were featured in a widely-circulated Gold Key Comics series about UFOs and flying saucers. I still remember an illustration showing Eskimo-looking people pointing up at the sky at a fleet of space ships like lifting bodies with skids underneath. One of them is saying, “They come in gliders, just like we Dropas did, 10,000 years ago!” The following panel showed explorers finding a pile of thick, double-convex discs in a cave. I never read any “ancient astronaut” books, but when I saw the words “Dropa stones”, this instantly flashed to mind. Maybe other people my age half-remember it, too.

  13. With so many discoveries out there that do not fit into the established timeline that archaeologists it has become difficult to decide who to believe. I’ve read books such as Forbidden Archaeology and chased down some of the references made in the book. Some were impossible to confirm,others left you wondering. In the end I guess it just comes down to opinions and everyone has one along with something else.

    1. Exactly! That is why it is a tragedy that this fiction is supported by so many. There is a plethora of evidence to support alien or super advanced races predating our ancient and “early” societies. So why are these guys undermining the truth about humans and society and Earth by promoting this completely unsupported story. I wasted so much time getting excited about this and promoting it to friends and family just to have my credibility damaged and my soul let down when I researched and found no evidence to corroborate whatsoever.

  14. Check the place where China detonated their firs atomic bomb. QINGHAI province. Close, don’t u think ?

  15. Been reading through the site for a while now, I intend to read everything. Enjoying it so far.

    I’ve read this particular story many times on other sites, both for and against. I tend to agree with your conclusions here, but for the pure fun of it(and because conspiracy is funny to me), I would like to add: You couldn’t find records of a Tsum Um Nui, or a Chu Pu Tei? Or a Beijing Academy for Ancient Studies? How odd…brings back old memories of nutjob conspiracies about massive government coverups in the old U.S.S.R….

    Oh wait.

    1. This is great, I’m not a believer of the ancient astronaut theory, but I do enjoy watching and reading articles or shows about it its quite intriguing. It brings up questions on things that do seem out of place. I’ve recently read an article which I found in StumbleUpon that lead my to search for this Dropa Stones since it started throwing names and evidence I decide to do a search of it myself. I googled them found this site, and here I am. I do believe people tend believe anything anyone puts in books or shows without going research of their own. Kudos to this site and article very well done sir.

  16. This is the way I look at it…….
    In order to be a true scientist of any real intelligence, then one must always keep an open mind to any potential “theory”. To be fair Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews, you don’t look old enough to have been a “professional” archaeologist for 26 years, and that is not an insult, just a mere observation. While I consider your hypothesis interesting, I must also remind you that unless you have concrete evidence to debunk anything, then it is still technically a “theory”. And don’t forget, at one time it was “theory” but considered fact that the Earth was flat and that the sun revolved around us instead of the other way around. I myself have studied Anthropology for almost 30 years and have realized that the only way we will ever know the truth on certain things is by inventing a time machine, and who knows, even the great Einstein has had some of his “theories” debunked recently. Just some food for thought…..

    1. D. Lovejoy, how do you expect a debunking of an idea that has no traces in real life? Shouldn’t the burden of evidence lie on the claimants? I must remind you that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this case doesn’t even have any. On the contrary, the fact that none of the people or institutions involved could be proven to exist only support the idea that this is a bad hoax. Of course no one can disprove this, just as you can’t disprove me when I say that there is a cat lying under my bed.

    2. I’m 49 and still get asked for ID when I buy alchohol, not all the time, but several times per year. I know you claim when you write “…you don’t look old enough to have been a “professional” archaeologist for 26 years, and that is not an insult, just a mere observation.” it’s not meant to be an insult, however it’s surely meant to render anything Keith has written as less authoritative based on your opinion of how old he looks based on a presumed lack of experience. He might find that as a compliment, I know I love when people think I’m far younger than I am.

      1. If it was meant as a compliment it would read “you don’t look nearly that old” or ” I would have guessed from appearances that you were in your late 20’s”.

        If it’s meant to question/attack your competence and qualifications it reads “you don’t look old enough to be a professional architect for 26 years.”

        It is literally stating that the your appearance calls into question whether you could be a professional with 26 years in the field.

  17. D Lovejoy, thank you for finally expressing some honest & personal thoughs. I dont usually believe what I hear or read, and nearly half of what I see. But one I couldnt miss was how much ass kissing your readers do! You should have Chapstick as a site sponser! Ok all jokes aside, these stones and their story do seem a little shady. But visitation by E.T.s in our distant past is a posibility. As any respected Astronomer or astrophysisist would tell you, the chances of another intellegent species to exist in this universe is not only a possibility, but a mathematical probability. If we advanced this far in thousands of years, what could we accomplish in millions? Id say things BEYOND our current imaginations! But i do enjoy sites based on factual study. So keep it up! And peace to all.

    1. I “dated” three Dropa women in law school and they were all equally generous and adventurous. Truly a beautiful people, and the women with their tiny bodies yet Large heads- very pleasing.

      It became clear early on that exploration is part of your genetic programming. All three wanted to know and experience everything when it came to intimacy and relationships, and their energy and enthusiasm was unmatched. Saying they were hungry or even starving for it is almost offensively undervaluing their dedication. Because of the financial and time burdens accompanying law school we had limited options for travel or excitement, but these girls creativity and their physical gifts are unparalleled and made those inconveniences disappear completely.

      Unfortunately, they were all on one year study abroad programs (separately), so we all relatively quickly had to say goodbye. However, I think of them often at days end- laying in bed, collecting my thoughts, relaxing my body and mind. In our short time together, we still were able to try many many different things and have experiences that most only get to fantasize. These wonderful images and vivid memories are something I enjoy regularly and will never forget.

      I thank all the Dropa men- fathers, brothers, ex-lovers, friends (haha), and sons for the gift that your women are to me. Unforgettable!!!


  18. How I wish they would rid the History channel of those ufologists. They make up entire stories to fit their fantasies and will go to extreme lengths with their lies, what place does it have on a HISTORY channel?

    They are almost as bad as people like Mark Lehner & Zahi Hawass.

    1. I completely agree. The ancient aliens AND the stupid reality shows – I wish they would show history on the HISTORY Channel.

  19. Oh how i love a good debate!
    Got to say though neither of the ‘for or against’ arguments can be proven or dis-proven at this point as every bit of evidence and even the people involved at the time have vanished. It sounds pretty cool to have had an alien race crash land on earth, be hunted by and eventually inter-marry with the locals. It would be a good basis for a new Sci-Fi show……. but that’s all it is until there is more evidence.

    I should so copyright that idea :D

  20. I speculate on this interesting subject: Perhaps the discs are maps of the universe, or rather maps of how time works in the universe with the hole in the middle representing the black hole at the center of the galaxy and the spirals depicting how time is displaced as you orbit closer or further away from the center. I think these hold far more information than has so far come to light.

    1. Hilarious. “These things I just heard of… I bet they are different than the way I just heard of them! I bet they mean something more than they did in the story I just heard!”

      Congratulations on your earth-shattering discovery, sir.


      To speculate on this interesting subject: Perhaps the disks are giant records. When you play the record backwards, you can hear it say “Paul is Dead”. I think these hold far more information than has so far come to light.

      1. Hahaha I love it! Maybe the discs are your rear-end Andy and the hole represents Uranus.

        However, the atmosphere of Uranus has roundish, let’s say pollop like bodies orbiting it that look like they are ready to burst. Each one of these blue-ish/purple boils is actually another universe containing another Earth with another Andy, with Uranus packed full of angry bursting pollup universe.

        And this repeats an infinite amount of instances over and over, so we are immortal but without awareness. That is until we can escape Uranus through enlightenment reached by meditation. drugs, karma, ???

        And eternity and Gods and Nature, and aliens, and humans , appear to be in Uranus. But the answers and questions and meaning and Life actually exist on a plane outside Uranus on your ass cheek.

    2. hey Andy C , you have changed the whole discussion , amazing and rip you . why are there bi discs and what was there use and if they have similarities with astronomical structures that raises again strange questions , what was their use and why Chinese people were using bi discs like thing , when those were not used like recorders . McWaffle says they were like recorders , how this come true . we are living in an electronic age and how can we compare old things with experience of present . It seems something missing and being hidden . And you see , Diego has many questions those are not properly answered by Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews , relating to that , dropa stones might be related to fiction , but why bi discs are used in China with so huge numbers in caves , what the message they convey in their own languages and those things are in shape like disks , and in no other shapes , and more importantly like gal-axial structure working and most importantly spirals are like changing of time speed with distance from the center of galaxy and these things are used in caves for dead people , why . if that relates with snake cults then truly question is , why snakes’ sign were become joined with disks and caves . Does this sounds that snakes cult were originated from great extra terrestrial knowledge , but how and why . people should not debunk any theory without searching every aspect about the theory . And Andy , what about this question , why most persons , things or institutions which related to extra terrestrial beings go for a no trace operation , why there seems a conpiracy about all these things . These should be answered honestly . Want a mail from you at , . THANX ANDY , for opening our eyes against possible fraud .

  21. The dropa stones may be a work of fiction, i agree, but I don’t think the history is pure fiction, our language barrier with the mandarin perhaps makes everything more difficult than it already is, I would like to know a recent opinion of someone that actually went there an talked to that people to see if those chinese names or the caves are real. Im a geologist, and as far as I know, there a lot of caves in china, with huge marble formations in the middle of the mountains, they are indeed amazing and there are no maps of them (less than 1% of the caves were studied). Other information that I know that those names in mandarin are dificult to even make the right spelling in english, so it would be normal to not find the teachers name for example, or even the academy of ancient studies, my natural language is portuguese and I know how much information aren’t exchanged with the world because we still write our projects in portuguese. I mean, these are pretty vague information (about the discs) and china is fucking huge, it deserves at least a field trip, with recent photos of the area, and at least a real cientific citation about the origin of those bi discs, for us to say surely that it was entirely pure fiction, dont you think? Although I think that the speculation about this is true, I also know that we humans are greedy, and I know that it wouldn’t be that hard also to find an object as valuable as this forbidden in a millionaire’s living room.

    1. Your argument seems nonsensical: if the original report of the Dropa Stones is “a work of fiction” (which it has been shown to be, many times), how do you figure that the “history” is not “pure fiction”?

      1. Dear Mr. Fitzpatrick,
        Sorry, I have to report a broken link. The newspaper Новое Русское Слово (Current Digest of the Russian Press) is no more. In 2010 it ceased to exist according to the Russian Wikipedia. (Новое_русское_слово) When one now clicks the link one ends with a kayak and rafting outfitter, nothing wrong with that, but pretty far away from any Qinghai caves.
        Salut! Edmond V.O. Katusz

  22. Has modern science lost its inquisitiveness altogether? Where is the hunger for knowledge, with an open mind ? If previous generations of archaeologists would hava had minds like these skeptics, we would have never known of the dinosaurs for they would have been dismissed as ‘pranks’, frauds or ‘bones of elephants long dead, mistaken for giant lizards’ … Does the evidence really have to be compelling for something to be taken seriously?

    1. No, of course modern science hasn’t lost its inquisitiveness. What I personally don’t agree with is people making claims about the past that can’t be supported with robust evidence. By all means, come up with wild ideas: I love to learn about new theories about the past, but mere speculation isn’t enough to convince me.

  23. Ok..thats all fine and good..but.. out of the 700 or so stones found,and the 2 that were in russia..what happened to them? Any dating tests done?Mere Forklore..I think not.

      1. I only want to say one thing about these Dropa stones that matters. Where there is smoke there is fire. And we don’t need a so-called firefighter dismissing this fact. So stories wrong, discs might be there, but have not been found yet, you blush the fire and will deny the fact that I saw the smoke. Thank You!

  24. No disrespect to anyone, I don’t know much about Archaeology and I am no professional, but I am interested in it and the connections we have to extraterrestrial life, I believe people should make their own decisions on what to take out of a story, Keith could be correct and this could all be a hoax, but at the very same time governments have hidden much from us and all the facts you found Keith could just be another means of misinformation, I am not siding with anyone, just take out of the story the information that means something to you.

    1. Oh yeah and @Grant, still no discovery? thought you were going to reveal that you found the Ark of the Covenant, such a bummer dude…..

  25. There’s no real evidence “Grant” ever existed…. I think we can give up on the 2012 thing now, although if reality changed then would we be aware of it? lol. Seriously though, this is an example of the back and forth of discussion in informal archeological societies for years. Feet firmly planted in diligent research and rigorous methods of examination of physical and literary evidence and/or wishful thinking and hope for an interesting future (and by extension, past), ala Vivien Leigh’s, “I’ll go back to Tara (possible misspelling there..sorry).” As much as there is a desire for something mysterious and magical to exist in the world there is a need to be able to support that desire with real world evidence. I make no claim to have done any significant research regarding the named individuals or organizations, but acknowledge the certainty that once something gets into print, that satisfies some folks need for physical evidence. Just ask any supporter of George Bush and Dick Cheney! Magical.

    There may be some evidence somewhere, undiscovered as yet, or suppressed for some mysterious reason, that our planet was visitied in the long ago, up to the present and, maybe, in the future. I know religions never destroy anything of historical value because it doesn’t fit with their narrow view of the world, time and everything. But, as inquiring minds are inclined to do, we raise question more on the hope of getting 15 minutes of titillation than illumination. I’ve read many scholarly articles that are drier than most would endure, but scientific evaluation based on the facts beats speculation every time. But my immediate question is which is more engaging?

    This string persists over time not because of the debunking, but because of the headstrong need for a mystery…in my opinion.

    I’ve thought about this now, and am sure I’ve used enough commas…. lol.

    Thank you Mr. Fitzpatrick-Matthews for sticking to your intellectual guns.

    1. Grant is right and the discoveries won’t be public. Many are simply very dangerous for the current religious beliefs, including some DSS , Ur descoveries the egyptian tunnels the paranormal caves in the near east etc

      1. “paranormal caves in the near east”

        Google was not my friend, so please tell us more!
        Especially about “etc.” Sounds awfully intriguing.

        Thank you very much in advance
        Salut! Edmond V.O. Katusz

  26. The Dropa disc and the Bi Disc are fundamentally two different discs …they do not have anything in common except for the circular shape and the hole in the middle. Go and searh for photograps of both.

  27. Saya heran dengan cara berpikir orang barat: kalau mereka tidak bisa membuktikan keberadaan sesuatu, maka dikatakan bahwa sesuatu itu tidak ada. Seharusnya mereka juga berpikir “oh, mungkin cara pembuktian saya yang tidak tepat”. Mereka berkata “kami menemukan benua Australia”, padahal benua itu sudah ada dari dulu. Benua itu sudah ada sebelum mereka ada. Jadi misalnya pada abad ke 1 AD saya mengatakan “ada benua di sana”, maka arkeolog zaman itu mengatakan “tidak ada”, padahal itu karena mereka belum mampu berlayar dan menemukannya. Arkeolog barat harus lebih mawas diri, merubah metode melihat-keluar menjadi melihat-ke dalam.

    1. Archaeology does not involve a “western way of thinking”, whatever that might mean. It involves the scientific method. This is not something culturally specific. Islamic scholars of the ninth and tench centuries CE were using something closely resembling it, so it pre-dates any European development. And it’s not so much a way of thinking than it is a method for investigation.

      Your example of Australia, for instance, relates to the European discovery of the continent. No-one in their right mind would claim that it didn’t exist before then. It’s also the case that no-one in Africa, Asia or the Americas knew about it, either: it was effectively isolated from outside contact because of the way that winds and ocean currents work in that part of the world. And in the first century AD, no-one could possibly have said that it didn’t exist: scholars of that time were perfectly happy to recognise that there were (or, at least, could be) unknown lands outside the part of the world that they knew.

  28. First of all, Aliens (are Human), and are an ancient, several ancient tribes from the Mesopotamia basins 100,000 years ago, who lost their emotional body from too much shadowy and greedy behavior, lifetime after lifetime, they lost a little more and more of their emotional body (feeling as a human) that it pierced their souls, and eventually even that, like a cloud was gone after each reincarnations death. Since as humans, we have a physical body, mental body, emotional body (and souls) and a spirit or pure energetic body. When these humans lost their souls, they could not reincarnate anymore, but roam with us with only a mental body. They are very, very intelligent, they can telepathically talk for those who can hear (clairaudio) and for the few rare ones, like advanced shamans, they can be seen energetically, like a djinn human who roams outside his body. Since the middle ages, much philosophy, sciences and even modern sci-fi have tried to chase the theory that they (aliens) and their military ships (ufo) are not born of the earth. That is not true, they are, they are the true hungry ghost (humans), wanting to reincarnate again, but cannot. So guess why they use their telepathy of their most powerful mind…. one guess, to try to get their soul back, which is impossible.

    Now no one ever asks a shaman, much less a dream female shaman or anyone who experience out of bodies, remote viewing, dream walking (without shamanic drugs), why because men LIKE THE CHASE, they don’t want to really know the answer of what aliens are, what ancient petroglyphs of a more alien looking human or the machines on things like the pyramids are. The only machines your going to find in this sector of the universe, is HUMAN, be it alien soul less humans who can no longer reincarnate, or the generals and ceo’s mind fucked by the telepathic aliens to try, desperate as they maybe, get back to the human race.

    Energy can be destroyed, and these ancient alien (humans) without soul, are in their last thread of survival and they know it, this is why CERN exists, this is why male archaeologists will never read symbolism of women who were artists 100,000 years ago or 60,000 years ago, speaking in symbolic languages of dreams in their cave art.

    So, the simple solution, get pure (no wine, no beer, alcohol, drugs, shamanic drugs, medications) and start your dream practices so you can all wake up too, its horrific when you meet these things in the real, but soon, you get over the fear, and get into deeper, real understanding of our ancestors who were women who crated most of these artistic paintings and stone etchings, if you don’t, then your stuck on the never ending wheel of the chase, as most have been since the 11th century

    Good luck

    at a certain point they could not

  29. “The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
    ― George Orwell

  30. I came across the idea of Dropa Stones today, and searched in vain for good information about them until I came here. Looking at how long you have continued to respond to comments on the subject is very impressive. Thank you for your dedication to the truth.

  31. Simple question archeologists, do you believe in the existence of extraterrestrials? Yes or no?

    1. Yes. It is inconceivable to me that in a universe so vast, life has not developed elsewhere. I’m open to the idea of life within our own solar system. What I can’t accept is that any of the “evidence” assembled by Ancient Alien enthusiasts is actually evidence for visits by aliens in the distant (or not-so-distant) past. If aliens had visited earth in the past, it might have been a one-off visit, in which case the likelihood of anything surviving is vanishingly small. If they came repeatedly, then the likelihood of finding evidence increases. But by evidence, I mean genuine alien technology, not representations in ancient art or descriptions in ancient literature, which is all the evidence that Ancient Alien enthusiasts can muster.

  32. Keith, I’m surprised you didn’t see this. I laughed my ass off. Tsum Um Nui….. hmmmm Tsum (some) Um (one) Nui (new). I bet you didn’t know I could read ancient names so well. What a farce, some one new! You have to give the original authors credit for for being creative. Thanks for your article. Sometimes Ancient Aliens go way over the top. No one knows for sure where we came from, but so many of these claims are ludicrous.

  33. It’s been some 5 years since this was posted, and I can barely refrain myself from saying this: it’s easier to fool someone than to make them believe they have been fooled. You have an amazingly nice website, an impressive amount of patience, and all my respect. Good luck with people like Mr. Grant (I’d jokingly and sarcastically call him “your fellow archeologist”, but I find it to be exceedingly disrespectful towards you, so I will just mention him instead).

  34. The Dropa stones and many, many other objects found that are believed (or not believed) to be from some planet other than “earth” or made here on earth by outerspacers may be a hoax. BUT only a fool would believe that, from the the galaxies that exist out side of the earth’s, that we are the only intelligent beings that exist!

  35. the stones are the tops of caduceus coils.the insulator for electromagnetohydrodynamic space engines.
    the pic of the two together have high voltage arcing.the ring on one side is the mercury vent collector and the other side is the seal to the caduceus flange.a plumbbob went in the center hole on top.

  36. You’ll never know the truth because it’s an oops artifact and even if they did exist they don’t now. If someone wanted to debunk the story there has been plenty of time to hide evidence and for skeptic’s to completely debunk the idea. What’s amazing is how many actual artifacts exist that no one wants to touch or have been put away from the public. The only people who want to talk about these artifacts are considered kooks because they always blame aliens or for any ancient technology. It’s very methodically explained away or called a hoax every time by the large credible institutions of archeology and history. Humans are 150,000 years old at least and probably older. Why won’t people talk about the hominids with larger brains than humans like boskopp man. Chromosome #2 in the human genome, which is an obvious gmo marker not a natural mutation responsible for our skeletal makeup and brain size. Why are humans always labeled as the only advanced hominids . By the time humans interbred with neanderthals, neanderthals had been reduced to a very small population and were inbred to the point of retardation. Evidence shows they had larger brains and higher advanced tools compared to stone age humans. We’ve survived multiple ice ages and catastrophes in the 150,000 to possibly 300,000 years of existence and there is still no proof of evolution or a missing link to other bipedal hominids, aside from denisovan and neanderthal dna being part of non southern African dna and part of Asian and European dna. All of a sudden in the last 100 + years humans populate the earth and advance enough to get planes from bikes and rockets from planes. Archamedes and his rocket science level math and genius inventions don’t even strike a chord in the mind of skeptic’s, yet modern science can’t explain that or how any ancient technology ever existed. How were the pyramids made and why do ancient human brain casts or mri show larger and more active brains compared to modern day t.v. generation Internet morons? Because then we wouldn’t be the pinacle of “evolution” and we might actually start to grow brains like our ancestors and actually think for ourselves!

  37. Interesting, if nothing else. I believe there are ancient drawings elsewhere (?) showing an astronaut in a small spacecraft. We will probably never know the factual truth on either subject.

  38. Disagree ! Not fiction ! 100% real but the powers that be “😂” ha! ha! doesn’t want the truth to come out 😡

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